What's Really Happening in Aviation Right Now with USA Today's Zach Wichter

Ever wonder how those wild aviation headlines actually come together, and what’s really going on behind the scenes when travel chaos hits the news? This week, we’re recording *on location* in New York City and flipping the script with someone who usually asks us the questions. We’re joined by consumer travel reporter Zach Wichter, and trust us, this one is packed with insight, laughs, and plenty of “oh wow, that tracks” moments.

We dig into passenger behavior, TikTok “travel hacks,” accessibility issues, and why everything in aviation always comes back to safety. From crazy inflight stories to how travel journalism actually works at USA Today, this conversation hits that sweet spot between informative and wildly relatable. If you’ve ever rolled your eyes at the seatbelt sign being ignored—or wondered why you can’t just move to an empty seat—this episode is for you. 

This episode of the Two Guys on a Plane Podcast was recorded on site at the USA Today Bureau in New York City, NY.

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Episode Highlights:

[0:00] We kick things off with real (and unhinged) aviation headlines that prove we can’t make this stuff up.
 [2:18] Zach shares a truly horrifying passenger story involving bare feet, armrests, and lifelong trauma.
 [4:00] We dig into how Zach accidentally found his way into aviation and travel journalism.
 [6:00] Talking flight anxiety, routines, and why knowing too much can make you a worse passenger.
[8:14] How aviation stories get written—breaking news vs. consumer travel advice.
[10:31] Balancing passenger outrage with airline reality (and why safety is always the subtext).
[16:55] TikTok travel hacks: why we’re not buying them and how they create more chaos than comfort.
[19:15] Hate mail, frequent flyer bragging, and what reader feedback really looks like.
[22:52] A deep dive into flight attendant history and why the role has always been about safety.
[28:11] Accessibility, damaged wheelchairs, and why airlines still aren’t doing enough.
[33:42] Why you can’t just move to an empty seat—and why this story struck a nerve.
[37:35] Disruptive passengers, post-COVID behavior, and why crews act fast now.
[43:36] Zach’s biggest passenger pet peeves (spoiler: seatbelts and headphones).
[45:43] Travel habits that actually make flying easier—no “hacks” required.
[52:05] Flight attendant pet peeves, favorite things crews do, and long-winded announcements.
[54:21] Lightning round: window vs. aisle, favorite airports, snacks, and dream destinations.

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Transcript

Rich Henderson  00:02

Ever wondered what your flight attendants are really talking about behind the galley curtain?

Andrew  00:06

Welcome to Two guys on a plane. Your go to podcast for an insider look at flight attendant life.

Rich Henderson  00:11

We're your hosts, rich and Drew, and we're here to tell you what really goes on at 35,000 feet.

Andrew  00:16

So sit back, relax. We're ready for takeoff.

Rich Henderson  00:21

Passenger banned after fellow travelers had to restrain him with zip ties for violent outburst.

Andrew  00:26

Passenger allegedly stabbed two people with a metal fork.

Rich Henderson  00:30

Flight Attendants fired after refusing to fly on a bed bug.

Andrew  00:33

Plane us bound. Plane returns to Tokyo after man bites. Flight attendant, yes,

Rich Henderson  00:38

these are real headlines from actual news stories from the past decade or so.

Andrew  00:43

If you work in aviation or a frequent traveler, you know that we really can't make these kind of stories up.

Rich Henderson  00:49

So today we are talking about all things aviation, but this time in the news, we have a special guest. And if you are watching the video version of this podcast, we are on location today in New York at USA Today's New York Bureau, and we are so excited to have a very special guest with us in the studio today. We are chatting with Zach wichter. He is a consumer travel reporter, and also someone we've spoken with many times now to share our flight attendant perspectives. And we are so excited he has done a ton of things over the years. He's worked for the points guy. He has worked for the New York Times. He won a Loeb award for breaking news on the 737 Max stories. And he's done a lot of great, incredible things. But today we are flipping the script, and instead of Zach asking us the questions, we're going to ask him the questions. So welcome Zach, which I guess feels silly, since, yeah,

Zach Wichter  01:44

I should be welcoming you. Welcome to my professional home. Thank you for coming to me and having me on your podcast. I feel like I owe you guys one, because we chat a lot, so it's really exciting to get to do this. Thank you.

Andrew  01:56

Thank you for having us. We really enjoy being here with you, and honestly, you're one of our favorites to chat with. Don't tell the rest of them or anyone else, but we really enjoy any time you do call us and chat with us. But Zach, before we dive in today, we ask all of our guests to tell us, like a wild story about a passenger doing something on a plane, or some crazy trip that you've had. I can't

Zach Wichter  02:18

remember if we've talked about this before, but on a recent trip, it was actually a work trip. I was flying out to Utah, and the woman sitting behind me, I was in the window seat, and the woman sitting behind me had her shoe off and put it up on my armrest, and, like, touched me in the side with her. She touched you with her, yeah, like this, her foot hit me, like, in the torso. She was wearing socks, at least, but like, that was truly one of the most horrifying things that's ever happened to me on a plane. That's not okay. No, it was not. I like remain traumatized by that.

Andrew  02:52

I feel like we talk about this incessantly, and the fact that you should, I mean, wear shoes for the year. But I just don't understand why people think the arm rester, foot rest and why they think it's okay to invade people's personal space

Zach Wichter  03:05

like that. Yeah, I don't get it. I did turn around and was like, Could you please, like, put that away. And she did move the foot eventually, but still, it was just like

Andrew  03:14

we had a polite interaction about it, for not calling the flight attendants over to deal with that. For you, I know I

Rich Henderson  03:21

was like, at least you took care of the issue. Like, a lot of times stories like that we get during deplaning, like, people will be like, well, no one helped with this woman's foot in my side, and you're like, I didn't know that was happening.

Zach Wichter  03:33

Like, I mean, listen, I know you guys are busy, and I'm sure we'll talk about this. Like, I know you're busy. You have a lot going on. Like, you're at your job, and I'm an adult human man, so I can, like, deal with some things by myself.

Rich Henderson  03:47

We appreciate that, and this is probably part of why we love you. Thank you. So take us back to the beginning, and your career kind of into journalism. Where? Where did you start? How did you get into aviation and travel? Travel news?

Zach Wichter  04:00

Yeah, so I really got into aviation and travel as kind of a fluke. I started so I went to Northwestern for broadcast journalism, and my first couple jobs in journalism were in broadcast. I was writing copy for a teleprompter at a local station here in New York, and then I was working in production at Dateline NBC for a little while, like really low level production stuff. I did not do anything that fancy or exciting, but I learned a lot in those jobs that and you know, it served me really well coming to where I am now and after Dateline. So I was on a contract there that wasn't being renewed, and I was just looking for somewhere to go. And I wound up getting an assistant job at the New York Times. And the way that the assistant program there works is you sort of bounce around to different desks. And ultimately, I wound up assigned on the business desk. And at that time, the New York Times did not have a full time airline reporter. Oh, wow, I really wanted to be doing more writing after I made the transition to print. I was like, Oh, I actually, like, working in print a lot more better work life balance and, like, I think, more flexibility with the kind of stories I can tell. So I just asked the editors in the business section, like, Hey, this is something I'm really interested in. Would you let me kind of do this on the side, in addition to my assistant stuff? And they let me run with it. And that was in 2017 and I've been covering travel on and off since then.

Rich Henderson  05:24

Wow, that's amazing. It is real. Yeah, show it never you never know, until you ask, yeah, exactly.

Zach Wichter  05:29

So really, like, thankful for the editors there who supported me in that. And also, just like, it's such a fun beat. I'm really lucky to get to do this, right?

Rich Henderson  05:38

So were you What drew you to aviation? Like, before that, did you were you traveling a lot when you were younger? Like, have you always loved planes? Like, where, where, you know, this was just kind of you want more, right?

Zach Wichter  05:51

No, so, so I, by the time I was writing about aviation, I was interested in it, but I actually did not travel a lot as a kid. I was a really, really anxious traveler. I've written about this before, so it's not a secret, but my parents, like, had to dissolve Xanax and apple juice to get me on a plane as a very young child. It was like, really bad, and I kind of overcame that severe anxiety by learning about it and just sort of becoming a nerd, like I started watching the Travel Channel, and just like sort of learned about how the travel industry worked and made myself more comfortable by learning about it. And so by the time I got into journalism, I knew a lot about the industry already, and felt sort of excited by the idea of learning more and making that the way that I earned a living.

Andrew  06:44

That's fascinating to me. I tell people this all the time, because you have, like, people that are nervous to fly, and they'll be like, how do you do this? And I'm like, you know, when you are trained for it, and then you have learned a lot about it, it takes a lot of the fear out of it. Yeah, I'm a terrible passenger, because I know what all those bells are. And I'm like, wait, what's happening? What's going on when you're working? You know, you know what the bell is. You get the information beforehand. You know what's going on. So it makes it way easier to fly. So, yeah, totally.

Zach Wichter  07:11

And it makes it like routine, I think, is the thing, like, when you're you're anxious, anxiety comes when you feel like you're out of routine and you don't know what's going on, but, like, I've gotten to fly enough now that, like, I have my routine down and I know what to expect, and it's like, become a place that I feel very comfortable.

Andrew  07:29

Yeah, that's awesome. And I always tell people, like, tell your flight attendants if this is a thing, because you know, if we are expecting turbulence, if we know that that's a fear of yours, we can cut or that causes your anxiety. We can give you the heads up the best we can. So tell us, tell us. You tell us what you need from us.

Rich Henderson  07:45

Yeah, they do always say, like with your biggest fears, you're just supposed to throw yourself head first into it. So that really kind of No, well, it worked out. So what's your writing process, like, when you get some of these crazy stories, like, you know, are you seeking them out? Are they assigned to you? Is it a mixture? Is it whatever is happening online, what's trending? Like, take us through kind of your process for writing

Zach Wichter  08:14

totally, definitely a mixture. And I'm also really lucky working at USA Today that I am certainly not in this alone. So we have a whole trending news team that we work with, and some other reporters on the travel desk. So really, like, I mostly do aviation, but it's not the only thing I do. And also, I'm not the only person here at USA today who does it. So a lot of the trending news, actually, other reporters handle, like some of the headlines that you talked about top of the show those like daily breaking crazy stories. I do those sometimes, but I would say, like other folks at USA today are more likely to pick those up. For me, I'm looking more at consumer travel stories, like advice for passengers, things that people need to know when they travel. I mean, the kind of conversations that we've had for my columns, and it really is a combination of me pitching ideas, my editor assigning me ideas, and then just seeing what's trending on the internet and what's getting traffic. And then also, I'm really lucky, because I don't just do aviation. I also get to do some travel stories. And so it's a really nice mix, like I was saying before we started recording best job I've had in journalism. This is, like, super fun. I'm really lucky.

Rich Henderson  09:24

That's awesome. Yeah, some of those breaking news stories, I feel like it would be chaotic to cover those, because there's just so many moving parts. There's like, deadlines, there's things happening so quick. I think that would probably stress me out.

Zach Wichter  09:37

I think what's interesting, you're not wrong, but like, on a breaking news day, I'm thinking, like, of the tragedy in DC at the start of this year. Like, obviously, days like that are super busy, but the adrenaline really keeps you going. And in some ways, those days are actually less stressful than a quiet day, because on a quiet day, I'm like, like. What am I doing? Right? Should I be doing more? Yeah? Like, like, what am I forgetting to do? But on a really busy breaking news day, like, we're all pulling in the same direction, and it's like, I won't say it's easy, but like, you don't have time to think about all the noise, so you're just sort of like, going with it, yeah?

Rich Henderson  10:22

What? What are some of the like, more difficult parts about covering aviation and travel versus some other topics?

Zach Wichter  10:31

So it's a good question. I think one of the things that I struggle with is, like, when you know a lot about what's going on in the industry, like, it can be hard to figure out what actually matters to travelers, like, because once you sort of know about all of the background, like things that a person who doesn't, who isn't steeped in the airline industry, things that those folks think are a story, to me is just like, well, yes, of course, like this thing. But then also sometimes I wonder, like, is that dulling, like, my sense of what is important to people? So I think it's really like a balance of keeping on top of everything that's going on in the industry, but also keeping my finger on the pulse of, like, what travelers want to know about so striking that balance and making sure that I'm being fair both to travelers but also to the companies that I cover, because some of their decisions may not make sense to the traveler, but once you kind of know the background of what's going on in the industry, it starts to make more sense.

Rich Henderson  11:33

I think that's so common with our job too, as flight attendants like we definitely get that because, you know, a lot of people don't understand why flight attendants are doing what they're doing. And it's like, when you know the back story and the reasoning behind everything, it starts to make more sense. And you're that's one thing I give you props for. You're really good at balancing like, Okay, we've got the voice of the passenger and why they're upset in this situation. We've got the voice of the crew members and why they did what they did in this situation, and then we've got the airline and what they're doing, you're really good at kind of playing it fair, I mean, and like, giving an honest perspective on things, and I think that's why we always answer your phone calls.

Zach Wichter  12:11

I mean, I really, like, I do put a lot of thought into that. It's like, I want to be fair to everyone. You know, sometimes it feels like maybe I'm going to bat for the company, right? Because a lot of people, again, don't necessarily understand why certain things are the way they are. But it's like, once you really think about it, once you know, like, as we've talked about so many times, almost everything in aviation has a safety angle. So almost all of these like annoying things that passengers have to deal with or to keep us safe. And once you have that framework, I think it's easy to understand why these processes are the way they are. And so then it's a matter of, like, explaining it to the traveler and be like, No, this is this is important. And here's why.

Andrew  12:52

Yeah, we have the conversation a lot because, like, every rule in aviation is born out of some other tragedy, exactly. And so what got us to this point? And you know, we argue with so many people over a seat back, but you're like, it's to let that person out. And people are like, Oh, yeah.

Rich Henderson  13:09

Then you also can't get too dark on people, because then they start to freak if you trip over this bag, and then this person trips on you, and then the planes on fire. They're like, Okay, you went too far. Yeah, right, yeah.

Zach Wichter  13:22

It's a real balancing act, though. And like, I think again, knowing the rules, like, I think about this all the time, like the people who the second the plane lifts off from their runway put their seat back, or, like someone who tries to sneak their laptop out after the flight attendant takes their jump seat. I'm like, I know you think this isn't a big deal, and it probably won't be, but, like, it could be, yep, that's

Andrew  13:44

and that's why we end up coming across like we do to most people, because, you know, our our brains. I tell people all the time, I don't do the job that I was hired for, right? Because, like, it's all safety minded, right? But I've never actually had to do the job that I was trained for. I serve sodas, but we're always thinking about that and how we would have to act if we were doing that job. And that's the thing people don't understand. And my computer's not the big of a deal. I have a deadline. I get that, yeah, but Right. But what? What happens when your laptop goes fly,

Zach Wichter  14:18

yeah, and hit someone on the head

Rich Henderson  14:19

or whatever? And you get that perspective and, like, that's the thing is, passengers don't get the bigger picture sometimes. And it's, you know, definitely a balance. And sure, in your writing is the same balance as us in our everyday work, with trying to, like, how much do I tell people?

Zach Wichter  14:35

Where's the lie? Yeah, the thing that, like, I think about the most, because, and I'm sure you guys see this all the time is like, nobody pays attention to the seat belt sign anymore. And I'm just like, I get that you have to go to the bathroom or whatever. But like, if something happens and we hit a bump and you hit your head, like you're really not gonna, like, be happy that you got up at that moment, and I saw. Someone on a recent flight who is, like, standing in the aisle holding a baby with the seat belt sign on, and I'm just like, this is like, I hope nothing happens, right? But like, this is not smart, right?

Andrew  15:13

And from our perspective, we're like, legally required to tell you that the seat belt sign is on. So if you get up or you call us over and say, Can I go to the bathroom right now? Yeah, I, I'm legally required to tell you that the seat belt sign is on. So why are you asking me, right? If you're just going to disregard me anyways, why would you ask and why would you create this tension on the airplane? Right?

Zach Wichter  15:33

Yeah, just pay it. Try it. Like I write about this in my columns all the time, like, pay attention, right? It's, yeah, it's, you're just play it safe, right? Like it's not worth it. Getting your eye mask out of the overhead bin is not worth owner.

Andrew  15:49

Put it in the bag that you're gonna put under the seat that you know you're

Rich Henderson  15:52

gonna need anyone No, but they want the leg. That's a whole nother thing. They can't, they can't be using that space. Yeah? See, you're, you're like, we are, where you know too much now, right? You can't just relax on a plane. You're too busy watching what's going on passenger behaviors. It's a blessing and a curse.

Zach Wichter  16:11

Yeah, for sure, it's a content mind. So that's good for me. Well, same

Rich Henderson  16:15

we always joke about this, because people will be like, Oh, you've been quiet. You guys haven't really posted any content lately. And I'm like, we haven't been at work. You can tell when we're at work, memes are flying out of our brains and onto the Instagram, right? Exactly. Yeah. So we totally get that. Well, speaking of content, though, we talk about this a lot on the show Tiktok, travel trends and things like that. I mean, people are constantly coming up with these, like, ideas and whatnot. How is that influencing your writing? And I'm sure you've done a lot of stories where some Tiktok trend has evolved and turned into something people are doing that's causing mayhem in the travel world. Yeah?

Zach Wichter  16:55

So my dirty little secret is, I'm not on Tiktok. That's a great yeah. So I'm one of those, like, middle like, I guess middle millennials who, like, sees it three weeks later when it finally but like, certainly, all of that stuff eventually filters through. And my kind of baseline position is I don't believe in a hack, like, I just don't think that there's really a way to hack the system. And so I think that all of these tricks are just kind of asking for trouble. And I spend a lot of time, like talking to my editor about why they might not be worth covering, or if we're gonna cover them, like there needs to be something in there about why it's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Rich Henderson  17:38

I think that's a great perspective. Like, I remember, I was on a flight, you know, because we fly on our airline benefits, and it's like, if there's a seat, there's a seat, great, you don't get a choice. And I was in a middle seat back from Europe somewhere, and there was a couple on the aisle and in the window, and when I sat down, they were like, no one's supposed to be here. And I was like, Well, I'm here, yeah. And I was like, Do you guys want to, like, scoot over and sit together? And they said no, and they fought over me and passed things over me the entire time. And I was just like, these trends are so stupid. Like, someone told them to do this right, and then no one will be in the middle seat, and it'll be so great. I was like, all it did was make me cranky.

Zach Wichter  18:19

I mean, sure. Like, I like, when my parents travel, they book the same way they do, like, window aisle and then hope no one comes to the middle. But obviously, like, load factors are above 90% so there's probably going to be someone there, and they, to their credit, like they move. I know other people who don't move, and I think that that is unhinged. Yeah, I will say that to their faces.

Rich Henderson  18:40

I'm like, if you don't move, there should just be a rule. You don't get to talk to each other

Andrew  18:44

exactly, stranger. Yeah, don't know each other anymore.

Rich Henderson  18:47

Yeah, that's funny. So with with the millions of readers that you guys have at USA Today, I'm sure you know, people have a lot of opinions about the work that you're doing and the writing that you put out what? What's that process like? Are people constantly sending you feedback? Is stuff filtered through someone else? Is it like when people talk about flight attendants and some of those complaints come back to us, and some of them miss us? How does that process work?

Zach Wichter  19:15

So my email address, Z wichter At USA today.com, is you're

Andrew  19:19

gonna put it out there. I think

Zach Wichter  19:22

it's on every story, so it is out there. Like, throw it out there. I am very easy to find. And honestly, like, I don't get that much of a deluge. Like, every so often I'll have a column that really strikes a nerve, and I'll get, like, a bunch of emails. But even on the busiest day, it's maybe, like, a dozen emails for some reason, and I don't mind this, but people really like to tell me their frequent flyer stats. And I'm like, very happy for you that you're a two times million miler airline, but like, that doesn't make me, like, pay more attention to your feedback than I do from the person. Who travels once a year and is like, I want to hear about the hidden gems, because, like, that's all good data for us to have. You're all our readers, and like, we want to serve everyone. But I do honestly get a lot of amusement out of like, mean emails, just because, like, I don't, like, I usually don't take it personally. And I, like, kind of think it's hilarious that someone has taken the time to, like, sit at their computer and type in email to insult me. I'm like, I'm glad I'm living rent free in your head, I guess. And thank you for reading like, I get the clink. Yeah, exactly. Please don't send me mean emails. Like, if you do, I might post it on my Instagram story without your name, so

Rich Henderson  20:43

that's hilarious. I live for that sort of stuff. I love the feedback, whether it's positive or negative, because the negative ones, it's usually just someone who, for no reason, feels like going off on this rant and you're like, okay, and the status thing, those people are so proud of themselves. Yeah, they will tell everyone. They do, literally tell everyone about their status. It's funny, yeah, like ordering a drink on the plane before it's even out of their mouth. You're like, Oh, I'm a whatever flyer. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Do you ever get any hate mail from flight attendants or pilots? No, you know,

Zach Wichter  21:17

like, I think going back to what we were talking about a little earlier, like, I really try to be fair to everyone that I cover, and so for the most part, like, people who I interact with in the industry, or people who reach out to me, who are reaching out from inside the industry, are, like, pretty constructive. If they have feedback, like, I would say a lot of it is just like, you know, thanks for covering this kind of thing. But then I also get a lot of emails from people who are like, Hey, here's something that like some aspect of this story that you missed, and please do send those emails, because I care a lot about covering things that aren't getting enough attention. Like I think that it's really easy for me as a reporter and for my colleagues in the media to miss stuff because we're not doing your jobs every day, as plugged in as we may be, and so I am always open to feedback that's like, Hey, you're doing this story. And here's a whole part of it that like no one is paying attention to right

Andrew  22:14

now, I know what feedback to send. Yeah.

Rich Henderson  22:17

Speaking of stories that you have written, we wanted to talk about a few pieces that you've done over the years, and we have a bit of a variety here, because you've done a lot of really good stories, and it's really hard to narrow it down with stories, but kind of taking it back, this was five years ago. You did a story called The first ever us flight attendant went to work 90 years ago today, and that was in 2020 and you have done a lot of work covering flight attendants, I feel like, over the years, but you must have done a deep dive in history for that anything about flight attendant history that

Zach Wichter  22:52

surprised you there, I do remember it. So, like bringing that up, it's been a while since I've, like, thought about that story, but I do remember, like, early on, flight attendants were all registered nurses, which I think really goes to show kind of how cutting edge aviation was in the early days. And, like, people just didn't know what to expect from it. And then I read the book The Great stewardess rebellion, and really learned a lot from that, just about, like, how important people in your profession are to the labor movement, and sort of, not just in the aviation industry, but more broadly, for workers' rights. And so, you know, it's just like, I think, like you were saying before, people think of flight attendants as just like the person coming with their soda on the plane. But there's just, like, so much more to it. And I think I tried to bring that out in the coverage that I do that again, like your safety professionals, that's the whole point. And I think, like, thinking about that nurse thing like that was the point from the beginning, flight attendants are there to, like, keep you safe and make sure you get to your destination safely and alive.

Rich Henderson  23:58

Both excellent goals. Yeah, yeah, one thing I thought was really interesting when reading that was a piece in there about, like the initial flight attendants being nurses, like you said, but also like nurses and attractive women, because airline executives thought that people were terrified of flying, and they thought, well, this will comfort people. And so thinking about that is kind of funny. When I think about today, I'm like, Hmm, well, are we comforting people as much as we should be? I don't know, but yeah.

Zach Wichter  24:29

Well, I think, like, flights were never designed initially to be as full as they are now. And so I think, like, part of what you guys do that customer service aspect is lost by default, just because, like, there are more people than there ever have been on planes, and so maybe you want to give passengers more individual attention, but you have like, 130 whatever other passengers to deal with at the same time.

Rich Henderson  24:52

Well, that's the unfortunate thing too. Like, you know, when we have flights where we're wide open and there's, you know, say, four of us, we're. Working, and you've only got 50 people, like, you have time to stop and be like, where are you going? Like, what's your you know, what's happening on your trip, and then they share some detail with you about how they're going through something. And like, you just end up really feeling like you can connect with people. And I think those are the moments, at least for me. I don't want to speak for everybody, but those are the moments I really enjoy the job, because it's like, I do like people at the end of the day. Yeah, I don't always get to see the best of them, but I do genuinely like people. So when you've got 200 people, there's nowhere to go, nowhere to hide, and everyone's wanting different things, it gets chaotic. But yeah, those those little moments where we actually get to like, care about people, I really enjoy. I think

Andrew  25:39

this is why I like flying the lead position, because you do like you're standing at the boarding door, you get to interact with more people, or you get a more personalized service. When I worked for an airline that had, you know, first class, I enjoyed working the first class cabin because there's less people, and you have more time to like, individualize and speak to and get to know people. And you're right. I mean, we just keep putting more people on airplanes, yeah.

Zach Wichter  26:04

And, I mean, I think about this in my own travels too, because, like, obviously I'm a pretty social person, and I'm interested in the industry, so sometimes I'm like, Oh, if I, like, get up to use the lav or whatever. Like, maybe I'll talk to the flight attendants in the galley. But then I think, like, they just escaped all of us, like, like, are they gonna want me being like, Hey, do you also live in Kew Gardens?

Andrew  26:27

I can't speak for all of them, but the majority of us, I would say, Do enjoy when you come visit us in the galley. Okay, if we're like, not doing anything really. I mean, if you can see that this is the five minutes that I've gotten to eat lunch. That's probably not the best time to strike up a conversation. Don't stick trash on my face while I'm Yeah, I enjoy interacting with people a lot. I truly do. So if we're up there and you're waiting in line to go to the bathroom and we're up there chatting with each other, join the conversation. Say hello, figure out what we're talking about. You know, we'll talk with you. I enjoy it,

Rich Henderson  27:01

and come up with an interesting question, yeah, is this turn

Andrew  27:06

around and go right back? Right? I know you're coming up for everyone else listening, come up with an interesting question, no, I don't live on the airplane. No, this is not my regular route.

Rich Henderson  27:19

Probably, is probably that's funny. Another not specific story that you've done, but one that you've done many pieces on, and it's a huge issue in aviation, is accessibility. And I am super passionate about this, because I started in special ed. That was my what I was studying in college, and what my first job was and seeing the way that the airlines don't accommodate people with disabilities infuriates me, day in and day out. You know, whether it's like waiting on wheelchairs or the way that people are, you know, being assisted by airport workers, like there's such a lack of training and such a lack of resources, and you've done so many great pieces on this, anything specific that you have found during your research that you think really needs to be focused on, that people need to highlight more.

Zach Wichter  28:11

Yeah, I mean, so one of the big sort of sub topics within this that I've done is talking about wheelchair damage by airlines, and that's a huge problem, right? Like, I don't think anyone is going to pretend that, like if a wheelchair gets damaged, that it's not a big deal, what airlines have said. And again, this is where, like, I kind of see both sides. It's like, the people who handle luggage are usually contractors, and those are very high turnover jobs, and so it's really hard to keep people trained to do it the right way. Right? Not that I think that that's an excuse, but like I see where the problem is, and I think that probably the first step to fixing it is addressing that is like finding a way to make these jobs something that people want to stay in. Because if you have people who are doing it for a long time, as opposed to working there for five or six months and then moving on to do something else, like their training will come in. They'll figure out better ways to do it, and they'll probably develop, like, more compassion and familiarity with how to interact with those passengers. And so, like, I think it's as much a labor issue as an equipment issue, but of course, there's also the problem of, and we've talked about this on many different topics, the real estate on an airplane is limited, and so, like, lavatories obviously are a huge accessibility issue, but as airlines try to cram more seats on the plane, the lavatories get smaller. Like, how do you make that accessible? They're like, the easy answer is fewer seats, but then the ticket prices are higher, and so it's just like, you know, there are a lot of factors here. And like, I wish that it was easy to address these problems, because ultimately, better accessibility is better for all travelers, but I can see where the root of the problem comes from. And, you know. It's not something that can be fixed overnight.

Rich Henderson  30:02

Yeah, I think the frustrating part is, like, the obvious bottom line here is money, you know, they don't want to lose money to do these things. And it's like, I get so frustrated with these corporations because I'm like, you could fix this. Like, you could definitely invest in ways to make these situations better for people like, I think about even on the plane, you know, we've got onboard wheelchairs where we can assist passengers to the bathroom. And I feel like there's such a lack of training for flight attendants too, where, you know, we've got our annual training and we have quarterly things that we do where we learn more about how to assist people with disabilities. But it's not enough. You know, we get out there on the line and you realize, okay, there's not enough training because people aren't doing things the right way. And then you even bring someone to the bathroom, and it's like, they're like, Well, how do I get in there? It's so small. And it's like, these are the frustrating things, like, they've got the bare minimum covered, but they're not, you know, paving the way to make this a fully functional, accessible place. Yeah.

Zach Wichter  31:02

And also, like, each individual with a disability or with some accessibility need, like they have different needs, and they're like, even if they have the same for lack of a better word condition or same diagnosis or whatever it is that's causing their accessibility need, the way it presents itself may be different than the previous passenger. So I think, like, you know, training is really important, but it can only do so much. Another big part of it is just like having that dialog with the specific passenger, and like hearing what their specific needs are, right?

Rich Henderson  31:37

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely something I would like airlines to focus on more. I know we've had a few airline CEOs listen to this podcast, so hopefully you're listening to this episode

Zach Wichter  31:50

and hear us. And if you have any news,

Rich Henderson  31:55

Z wichter At USA Today, exactly. Thank you. I hope there's a spike in your inbox the day this episode?

Zach Wichter  32:02

No, I hope so too. Like this is honestly, like, it's a really important topic, and I've just, I think I've told this story before, but the reason that I started, like thinking about this is many years ago, I took a family trip, like, with my parents and some cousins, the airline we were meeting in an international location, and the airline that my cousin was flying on left his wheelchair at the departure airport. So we got to another country, he has cerebral palsy, and he didn't have his wheelchair when he got there. And fortunately, like, we were able to make it work, and the wheelchair came a day or two later. But it was just like, it really opened my eyes where I was like, this is if, like, if you depend on a wheelchair, and you are kind of giving it, entrusting it to a company, and then they don't do the right thing with it, like that, really can mess you up.

Rich Henderson  32:51

Yeah, it's an extension of that person. Like, part of them, you know, to just throw it down a slide onto a ramp is like, Ah, you can't do that.

Zach Wichter  33:00

Yeah, we've all seen those videos right where they're just like, chucking them down onto the tarmac.

Rich Henderson  33:04

So the next story we have that you've done is why you can't just move to an empty airplane seat for free. This was a recent one, and I love that you're laughing already because I was laughing reading it because I was like, yes, yes, exactly. Like this is one of those moments where I what I was talking about earlier, where you, like, cover everybody's perspective really well. Yeah, you did so well in this piece. Because I feel like there was someone you spoke to that referenced, like you could, like, last resort, talk to a flight attendant, but a, they're busy, and B, they probably can't do a whole lot for you. So I love this piece. But how was writing this one?

Zach Wichter  33:42

Well, it's funny. So this is one that really struck a nerve, and I probably got more emails about this one than almost anything. But I mean, I enjoyed writing it, and I thought that the info is important. And, like, again, it really comes down to safety first. Like, even though weight and balance on most planes isn't a huge issue. Like, could seat assignments matter? Like, I'm sure probably everyone listening to this has been on at least one flight where it's like, you got to move around, or you have to do something. So, like, I always emphasize that first, like, everything in aviation has a safety angle. But then also, like, again, I feel like I'm going to bat for the companies here a little bit. But like, if they're selling these premium products and they're charging extra, and they have people who willingly paid for that, like, you don't get to steal part of the benefit from them, so I don't know again, like, I just think the solution in flying mostly, is throw money at the problem if you're really not happy with what true? Yeah. And so, like, I get that that's annoying. We all want to, like, fly first class on an economy budget, but that's like, unfortunately, just not how it works, right?

Rich Henderson  34:54

I think you're defending the passenger too, though. I mean, the airline obviously wins in that situation, but. Yeah, you know, I've had people be in like, exit rows, or whatever the premium seat is, and they're alone, and then someone's like, thank you. Like, I paid $150 to sit here, or whatever the case was, and they're like, it's just, you know, sucks. It's not fair. And I was like, You're right, it's really not Yeah. And so yeah, I definitely yeah.

Zach Wichter  35:17

I mean, someone who I spoke to for that piece, I can't remember who, like, who said this now, so I apologize to that person, but they basically said, like, if, oh, you know what it was. I think it was a, it was actually a tweet from United Airlines, from like, 20, oh yeah, that I embedded in the story where they were like, if someone paid for it and there's extra space, why shouldn't they be entitled to the extra space, rather than, like, you who didn't pay for it getting, like, the benefit of that extra space that they, sort of, you know, paid a premium to hat to be near. So I get it. I think that that's a fair argument. Like, if I paid $150 for an extra leg room seat, and could get some extra elbow room, like, why should the person who didn't pay. Get to move into that empty seat. I get it. Who made

Andrew  36:03

the tweet? I feel like it was an airline. But do you remember that? Did you ever see this one where they like, it's like walking to a Toyota dealership and then being like, paying for the Toyota I think that was like the same time drive off with Alexis. Exactly you you do get what you pay for at the end of the day, like, if you want the premium seat, it was obviously available,

Zach Wichter  36:24

yeah, pick it, right, right, exactly. Probably cheaper

Andrew  36:27

if you do it up front too. Because by the time you get to us, if we have to do it for you, yeah,

Rich Henderson  36:32

because you can do that on the plane, yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't have that power. I don't want

Zach Wichter  36:38

to deal with that, right? Just one more thing,

Rich Henderson  36:40

yeah, let me swipe your credit card for this seat. And that just sounds like a really painful interaction with passengers. They already hate us, like they already hate flight No, no.

Zach Wichter  36:50

I mean, I'm sure some do, but not everyone, probably not

Rich Henderson  36:53

most people, thanks, Zach, not everyone I know, like three people who, like you, have a lot of flight attendant friends, though, don't you? Or not as

Zach Wichter  37:03

many as you'd think. I mean, like, like I said, I live in a neighborhood where a lot of flight attendants live, coincidentally, but you all are busy, yeah,

Rich Henderson  37:12

that's for sure. Yeah, don't I know it? Yeah? Another story that you did this headline, reading this story just blew my mind. Sun country flight diverted due to disruptive passengers ranting. And I feel like that's a very tame representation of what actually happened when I was reading that story. I was like, this is just getting crazier and crazier.

Zach Wichter  37:35

Oh, that was the guy who was like, the gays are getting me cancer, right? Yeah? Like, radiating, radiating me, yeah, yeah. And, well, let me ask you about that. Like, what do you do if you have an absolute lunatic on one of your flights?

Rich Henderson  37:49

I'm gonna hide in the laboratory. I mean, we learned so many de escalation techniques, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And so really it's just kind of trying to, you know, isolate them a little bit so that they're not having other people participate, trying to calm them down in different ways. And then, you know, eventually last resort, call the captain, land the plane. We're not doing this anymore, right?

Andrew  38:16

Yes, I also hate to say this, but since covid like lunatics be we want a ticket? Yeah, I feel like we're so much more guarded. And I feel like this is a part of, like, the customer interaction that I really despise at this point in my career, because we were so much more guarded, because we start watching for that behavior very early. Now true. You know what I mean? So, like, you look at his cross ad, and we're like, you're gonna be a problem, right?

Rich Henderson  38:43

Well, and I think that's why people, like passengers, don't understand this. But this is why we're so quick to remove people during boarding when we see the first sign of anything, because it's like, this is only going to get worse as her altitude, you know, increases, and we're in this cabin together, and we have nowhere to go and know where to put you. So if we sense anything's even slightly off, we're like, you got to go, because there's nothing you

Andrew  39:07

can do. Yeah, I was flying recently, and I had a passenger misinterpret like situation that I was having with someone else, and he was trying to start a riot on an airplane. And I was like, We got to go. And he was like, Well, I was just talking to myself, and I was like, you weren't you. You're literally trying to get this whole airplane full of people on your side. And when I close that door and they all come after me for something, you misunderstood. And he was like, I don't understand why I have to go. I don't understand why I have to get off the plane. And I was like, and that spur

Rich Henderson  39:34

is the problem, part of why you're leaving problem, yeah.

Zach Wichter  39:38

So like you said, you know, since covid, people have been, like, more insane on planes. And that's something like, as a reporter, I've been wondering about it's like, are we seeing it more because everyone has their phones, or is it actually worse, or, like, a little bit of both?

Andrew  39:53

From the world's perspective, it's probably a little bit of both. You're probably seeing more of it because of. The cameras and social media, it's way easier to get those things out of there, but from a flight attendant and rich can correct me if he feels differently, but I feel like it's the behavior has gotten worse in general. Yeah.

Rich Henderson  40:16

I mean, the phone thing definitely is not helping, because nowadays people are recording whatever is happening too. So that always escalates things in a way. But I mean, I started in 2013 and I would say up until covid, it was very minimal with crazy passenger behavior. And now it's like, you know, you land after a day of flying, and you're like, Well, no one went crazy today. So I would say it's definitely happening more and, yeah, visibility is increasing because of technology, which is, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, probably a bad thing.

Andrew  40:48

Yeah, I also, I, kind of, I personally blame tiktoks. Everyone's told about these hacks and how to make things cheaper and get things better, and then when those systems fail, like flying is already stressful, right? Like, I think people having control taken away from them always sets people, like, on edge. So then you like, check in for your flight. You get through security controls taken away, questions aren't answered, right. You get to a gate, you're delayed, questions aren't answered, right? And that just compounds. And people are way quicker to, you know, pop off these days, yeah. I mean, I was gonna say explode, but I was talking about those were good airplane words, and I was trying to figure out again.

Zach Wichter  41:31

I mean, I think it even goes back to, like, the seat belt sign, thing that I was talking about before. Like, I think in anecdotally, I think even that's gotten worse since covid. I think people are just like, more people got so used to being at home by themselves that, like, everyone is more individualistic now. Or like, I'm sure we've also talked about, like, headphones. Like, I was on a flight recently where, like, there was a baby and its mom in the row behind me, his or her, I'm not sure, so I guess it's and like, but like, they were playing like, cartoons on a tablet without headphones, and I'm just like, like, no one like, I'm glad your baby isn't crying. This is great. But like, no one wants to hear like, definitely,

Rich Henderson  42:14

because it's like, kids, you can just you have so much, like, patience for them, so much tolerance for it, because it's like, okay, they don't know any better, but adults, it's like, come on. Man, yeah, so with all of your exposure to things happening in the travel and aviation worlds, does that make you more excited to fly and go travel yourself, or does that make you kind of cynical and like hesitant to get on a plane when you see these stories happening.

Zach Wichter  42:42

No, like, I love traveling. I love getting to do what I do. It's great. Certainly, like when I'm traveling for my personal travel, it's different than when I'm traveling for work travel. I try when I'm doing personal travel to unplug as much as possible. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. You know, like, the reporter brain is always on, but no, like, I'm I don't think I'm cynical, like I said I am comfortable on airplanes now. No Xanax, yeah, no Xanax needed. I don't think I would survive in this job, like, it's not something I would be able to come and do every day where I didn't still love it.

Rich Henderson  43:17

Yeah, that's a good point. We talk a lot about airplane etiquette, and we just did a whole podcast episode about this and all the things that people complain about. If you could have like, one rule in place for passengers, like one behavior, or whatever that you could put in place, what would it be like one thing that drives you nuts that you wish would stop?

Zach Wichter  43:36

I really do think it's either the seat belt thing or the headphone thing. Like, okay, the headphone thing affects me more personally. Like, I really just want people to keep their noises to themselves. I also want people to be safe. And like, I wish that people took the seat belt sign more seriously. And also, like, if you're standing in the aisle near me and we hit a bump, like, I don't want you to fall on me. I don't want to, like, get hurt. I'm injury prone. So like, it will definitely be me and I'm gonna get hurt. So like, please sit down.

Rich Henderson  44:10

I love that. As a non flight attendant, you were just as bothered by the seat belt sign thing as we are. That makes me happy.

Zach Wichter  44:16

I know that I'm probably, like, as a non flight attendant, I'm probably in the minority about caring about that, but it really bugs me.

Andrew  44:24

I always think people, well, I don't think people know what goes into the seat belt sign, which is why people are so apt to ignore it, because it's been smooth the whole flight, and the seat belt sign has been turned on. But like, it's weather reports, it's ATC, it's other airplanes reporting to ours what the weather is like around us. So, like, it is a maybe, yeah, but it's also, you're in, you're literally in the clouds. You don't know what those are gonna do. We have a forecast coming at you from a lot of people, and it's like, this is the safest way to do it. It was on for a reason, but people are like, there was no turbulence. I'm fine. I i can get up. Yeah, okay, sure.

Zach Wichter  45:04

Well, that was like five rules, not one. I apologize. I'm a rule follower, and so, like, I think that's

Rich Henderson  45:12

why we've done entire episodes on this topic, because it's hard to pin just one down. Yeah. So through your work, you've obviously, you said you didn't travel much before you started kind of in this travel and aviation content world. But what are some things you've learned over the years that changed the way you travel personally? Like, what have you seen or experienced through your work and been like, huh, I should, I should do this when I travel or not do hacks or tips. I know you said you said you don't believe in the hacks, but yeah, there are some tips that work.

Zach Wichter  45:43

Yeah, no, it's true. You know, it's really weird, because, like, even though, like, I feel like traveling has become routine for me, I also don't have, like, that much of a set routine. Like, I'm pretty go with the flow, and it comes with travel, I guess. Like, it's all pretty basic stuff. Like, I try to pack pretty light. I really do my research about, like, where I want to sit on the plane. Like, you know, I'm a big like, Arrow Lopa fan to make sure I'm not going to wind up in a windowless window seat if I'm on a long flight,

Rich Henderson  46:18

which is great, because that happens and people go, people mad about it.

Zach Wichter  46:22

I would not want to be on the receiving end of the person who's like, about to fly to Europe and be like, I booked a window seat and I don't have a window like, luckily, we don't

Rich Henderson  46:31

see it too often. Yeah, I don't like. The only plane I can think of right now where that happens a lot is the seven three. And I try to avoid that plane like plague, because it is the plague. I playing

Zach Wichter  46:43

fair, but in terms of like, advice or tips, I think it's really just like, be nice to people and be chill. Like, I get that flying can be stressful, but don't let your stress come out on the people who are there to try to make your trip easier. Like, yeah, yeah.

Rich Henderson  47:03

It goes such a long way to like. We tell people that like people always ask us because, you know, it's kind of become trendy now to bring gifts or whatever to fight into the spring candy or gift cards or whatever, yeah. And obviously those gestures are great, but we always tell people like, you're gonna probably get just as much out of us. If you like, walk on. Respond when we say good morning or Welcome aboard, ask us how our day is going, or just generally, be nice and not a pain, not in the way, you know, like it's really that simple. Well, I

Zach Wichter  47:29

guess that's one of the things like I do. I always say hello. I'm like, nice to people and like, to me, that's just the normal thing to do. But then I'm reminded that, like most people don't do that, which I think is insane, because it's just like, if someone says hello to me and I'm literally standing there staring at them, like, Am I just gonna keep I'm not. I'm not Gen Z, I'm not just, like, answering the phone and not saying anything.

Rich Henderson  47:54

Like, it's amazing, because, like, people you know, like, the more you say to them, they just start turning away from you, and it's like, I I can see you're

Zach Wichter  48:05

not, you're not actually part of the furniture. Like, yeah, yeah. Also, I think just like we were talking about before, like, when you're flying, it's hard, because you might not feel like you're in control, but like, that's okay give up some of the control. It's okay. Like, when I fly, no one likes getting delayed, right? But like, if there's weather or some mechanical or something else going on, like it's out of everyone's control, and it just like, it's for safety, and it is what it is. And just like, no amount of yelling at the gate agent or whatever is going to solve that for you. So just like, nothing you can do, yeah, and truly it sucks, like it's not fun being stuck in the airport. Like I had a trip once, I was flying home from Cape Town via Atlanta, and it was supposed to be like, a three hour layover, and my second leg was delayed, and it wound up being, like, a seven or eight hour layover, and I just wanted to be home, yeah, but it's like, whatever. There's nothing I can do. I went and was like, Could I get on an earlier flight to LaGuardia instead of JFK? And they were like, did you check a bag? And I said, Yes. And they said, Well, your bag is still going to JFK. And I was like, All right, I guess I'm staying here, like, and it is what it is.

Rich Henderson  49:22

So, yeah, I It's so hard because, like, that's literally the best advice is, like, just let go of that control. Don't freak out over things. But in those moments, it's so hard for people to do they just, like, have to let their anger out somewhere.

Andrew  49:36

Yeah, and we get that, but we talk about it a lot. Literally, no one is happy about this delay. Right? The gate agent who just got their shift extended is not happy to be sitting there with you for seven hours, right? The flight attendants who were supposed to be home or to a hotel 12 hours ago, right, still are not happy about sitting there with you.

Rich Henderson  49:54

So, yeah, I just especially we're not getting paid for those hours sitting in an airport with you. We're mad too, right? We. You're very mad.

Andrew  50:00

That's our biggest thing. Like, just be nice to the people around you, because we're still going to be there when you get on the plane, right and yelling at us out in the boarding area because we're not leaving is not going to make us nicer to you when you get on the plane.

Rich Henderson  50:15

I get like, passengers need a reason. They need to know why we're delayed. And there are reasons where it was a crew delay, but it's usually because of we had minimum rest somewhere, or there was an issue with transportation, or something like that. And but the way it comes out of, like gate agents mouth, sometimes just people assume, bro, well exactly, and I'm like, and they just immediately think we're the problem. And I'm like, and we didn't do this like it is we're delayed, but we didn't, we didn't do this

Andrew  50:44

nine times out of 10, your late arriving crew is because of a late inbound arrival, right? They were flying in from another city, or they're coming in from a hotel and their transportation somehow got messed up. Like the one time we probably show up from home is not the one time you're delayed, I promise, right? There's not us doing that. They'll say it's crew delay. The late arriving crew means we are coming in from somewhere else, right? We haven't gotten there yet.

Rich Henderson  51:12

I had this happen recently, too, and I was setting up the galley in the back during boarding, and this woman came to the back to use the bathroom, and as she's like, going to push the door in. She goes, it was nice of you guys to finally show up. And I said, oh yeah. Well, we saw a cute Cafe, and we decided to stop for a nice lunch, right? And she looked at me, and I said, it was really good. She was so mad that I was like, today's the day I'm getting fired. Like, come on, lady. Like, right thing happened, right? Exactly. So since you are our first non flight attendant guest, that's crazy.

Zach Wichter  51:47

I didn't, well, I didn't realize that. Thank you so much. Yeah, we're

Rich Henderson  51:50

always asking our non flight attendant friends this question, what are some like? What is one pet peeve that you have the flight attendants do something like you wish we'd stopped doing and then one thing that you love that flight attendants

Zach Wichter  52:05

do, I think, like, in general, as I've said, like, I sort of know what to expect, and I'm pretty chill, like, my this is not a trap. But no, no, I don't feel trapped. Like, there isn't a lot that, like, flight crews can do to, like, really annoy me because I'm just, like, I get it right. Like, like, maybe I'm going on vacation or whatever, but you guys are at work. Like, so, but the one thing that I will say I've been on some flights This is, I wouldn't say this is super common, especially like these days, but like, some flight attendants and also pilots just, like, really love the sound of their own voice. So, like, overly long announcements, I'm like, please just let me watch my movie. Like, I thank you for trying to make everyone on this plane comfortable and safe. But like, I don't need, like, the list of every single potential connection in the airline's like, main hub, or

Andrew  53:01

like I wanted that, I would fly the airline where I knew that was going to happen. Right there is one right, singing and jokes and all that is allowed if I wanted that, maybe

Zach Wichter  53:11

not anymore. Yeah, if

Andrew  53:15

I wanted that, I would fly the airline

Zach Wichter  53:17

like I had a pilot recently who just like, gave the like, truly the longest like, welcome aboard announcement ever. Then he came out and shook every passenger's hand. He like, walked back to from Hello, and I was like, yeah. One of the things I like the most about flying is that it's a time that I feel like I can unplug, yeah and like, have some me time and be with my thoughts or be quiet or take a nap or whatever, and so, like, really long announcements, that is a pet peeve. But otherwise, like, I think every flight attendant is, like, for the most part, really good at, like what they do and like making me feel welcome.

Rich Henderson  53:57

No, so you're gonna have to lie. No, no, no.

Zach Wichter  54:00

Like, it's a stressful job. You wouldn't do it if you didn't, at least, kind of like it, right?

Andrew  54:05

True. I love that you use it to unplug, because I do too rarely get Wi Fi, so usually have a book or something. I really it's like my four hours.

Rich Henderson  54:15

If you could no longer be in journalism, what would you be doing? Would you be a flight attendant? Maybe.

Zach Wichter  54:21

So. So actually, I have, like, almost jumped ship from journalism a couple times. The most recent, like, real serious attempt that I made was I applied to be a diplomat. I took the Foreign Service officer test, and, like, got pretty far through the process. That's amazing. With the State Department, it didn't work out because I, like, missed the cut off for one of the scorings by a little bit, but that was before I had this job. Right now, with the job that I have, there really isn't anything I think I would rather do, but I'm sure if I was going to leave, it would be something like communications related, you know, maybe go work for one. These brands that I cover.

Andrew  55:01

Yeah, also, I need all of the followers who just Googled how to become a foreign diplomat to message us about I'm literally trying questions. I need to know if anyone else felt like I did, because I really just wanted to Google.

Zach Wichter  55:18

Craziest thing was and like, I think I'm remembering this correctly. It was a real blur. So, like, very briefly, the way that that works is, like, you write a bunch of essays, you take a test, if you pass the test, they read your essays, and then if they like your essays, you get invited to DC and do a day of kind of like workshops and in person interviews with current diplomats. And if I remember correctly, there was a flight attendant in my cohort in DC. Oh, no kidding, yeah. So you can make the

Rich Henderson  55:50

job wherever I was gonna say so many things, and people don't realize that, like half of us, have other jobs, other careers, other whatever. So that actually doesn't really surprise, not even everywhere you go there's a flight attendant or something. But yes, now I'm gonna go home and Google well. Before we go, we like to play a little lightning round game with all of our guests. We're gonna ask you 10 questions. First thing that comes to your mind,

Zach Wichter  56:17

say something inappropriate. Yeah.

Rich Henderson  56:20

So this is cross checked.

Zach Wichter  56:29

Okay, Zach window or aisle window, Airbus or Boeing. It depends on, like, the plane type, like, I'm too nerdy to pick

Rich Henderson  56:37

just one. I love this answer,

Andrew  56:41

hotel or Airbnb.

Zach Wichter  56:42

Hotel, favorite city you've been to? Oh, London. I guess that is a hard one.

Andrew  56:47

Yeah, just one. It's really hard to do. Yeah, favorite airport.

Zach Wichter  56:54

I like home, so JFK, least favorite. I don't have a least favorite. I'm happy to be anywhere.

Andrew  57:01

I love that answer, because I'm happy to be in any airport but Atlanta. Go to snack while flying

Rich Henderson  57:09

pretzels. Like airline pretzels or

Zach Wichter  57:11

No, I always buy, like, a Hudson news bag of pretzels. Yeah.

Rich Henderson  57:16

I was like, if you're talking about the stale little pretzels, airplanes are giving out, we need to talk.

Zach Wichter  57:22

I almost always like, stop at the Hudson news in the airport and buy a bag of Snyder's pretzels.

Rich Henderson  57:28

Okay, solid choice. Favorite song on your travel playlist right now,

Zach Wichter  57:33

hmm, if I'm going to listen to something, it's usually oldies. So like some kind of Ella Fitzgerald, like chill, put something in my ears and zone out too.

Andrew  57:43

Love one item that's always in your carry on,

Zach Wichter  57:47

the like thing to clean my glasses, like that little cloth to like clean my glass lines, is, yeah,

Rich Henderson  57:54

love place you've always wanted to visit and haven't been to yet, Brazil. Ooh, good choice. I like your answers. Thank you. Well, that's all we have for you today, but thank you so much for having us in your

Zach Wichter  58:09

thank you guys for coming to me. Yeah, this is great.

Rich Henderson  58:12

We would do this anytime. Yeah, please.

Andrew  58:15

It was a really enjoyable conversation. Thanks for letting us get to know you a bit better. We I really enjoyed learning more about

Zach Wichter  58:21

you today. Yeah, likewise,

Rich Henderson  58:22

and we can't wait to read more of your aviation and travel. Consumer, consumer, travel news, artist, you'll be in it.

Zach Wichter  58:30

Call us anytime. Yeah, thank you. Same. Have me back on. I'd be happy to do it. Awesome. Thank you.

Andrew  58:35

Well, friends join us next time for more humor, heart and stories from our beverage cart.

Rich Henderson  58:40

This episode was brought to you by staff traveler, the number one non rev app if you travel on standby tickets and are looking to make your journey easy and stress free, check out the staff traveler app in the Apple App Store or Google Play Store. Visit staff traveler.com/two guys to learn more and sign up

Buzz Burbank  58:58

an ironic media production. Visit us at i r, o, n, i C, K, media.com, you.